Court Transcripts from Ye Olden Days (ish)

Hi,

I have made an immediate update to the record, which is much less than there was, as what was there was just copy/pasted from some other site some years ago when I was stating the site.

However, the Home Office record for the murder is available at the National Archives. I have included the reference there:

www.britishexecutions.co.uk/execution-content.php?key=1403&termRef=Henry%20Dainton

You can go and read it. I dont have that, but I have pencilled it on my list for my next visit and will process it them.

Regarding the newspaper accounts. Contrary to what a lot of people say, I have found most newspaper accounts to be pretty reliable regarding the facts. The only examples of less than perfect reporting I have come accross were unsolved cases where newspapers have reported evidence as having been found which in the police reports were noted and described as completly misleading (Louise Maud Steele case I beleive the press reported finding blood stained clothes at a certain location but when the police examined them they found that they were clearly rotten and had been where they were found for months or years). The actually Coroner and trial details are uaually spot on word for word. As such, if you have access to a newspaper archive I would recommend it. However, it might be that they dont say much, often cases were covered in less than a few sentences, in which case you would want the HO file. However, its worth noting that there is a good chance you wont be able to read the HO file. THe writing is often worse than terrible. Further, the file could be all rolled up and in a box with 50 other rolled up files (at most) and difficult to open etc. I'm not trying to put you off, but the files from pre 1900 are usually in a bad state. (although from experience, many of the parchaments are often themselves almost brand new looking in the centre when they have never been looked at for decades).

Also, the newspapers are often useful in interpreting things, providing comments from other people, finding out how they behaved at the hanging thing, what they said before they died, and summing up motives and sentiments that the files dont do. Sos much so that the main substance of many HO records are cut out newspaper reports that are pasted with care into the official reports.

Did I emphasis that newspapers are easier to read than these old documents?

Hope that makes sense. You might be able to find an ASSI file for the case but there is none immediatly apparent.

The files wont contain any mediacal reports on the accused or deceased though (virtually no chance) as they didn't go in for all that until much later. You might do well to have the National Archives photograph it for you and send it to you by email. They charge about £1 a page but if there are only 20 pages it could be less than the journey time.

HO 144/241/A53388

discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4134177

Look for the request a copy button. I would reccomend that, especially if you consider that it might be hard to read, short and relativly dissapointing. [ask them for a quote first!!]

Files from 1910 onwards can be 1000+ pages long and include full trial transcripts etc.

Careful what you look for. It was quite common for people to become certified idiots and insanity was common place and ran in families.

If there was any claim of insanity there might be a list of relatives that were certified insane and when, including suicides.

If your lucky you might find some drawings or plans and there is a very remote chance it might have some photos.

Hiya

After years of trawling through National Archive records I have come to the conclusion that the reports there are just what PC or Supt or whoever decided to record - or at best their own biased interpretation of it.

Work. I have been in nursing for just about 40 years now and I think Huntingtons is one of the worst - they call it 'the dreaded legacy' because if one of your parents have the gene you have a fifty/fifty chance of getting it. I thought this would mean half the kids of an HD sufferer would get it - but that's not the case. I looked after a lady on the south coast who was one of five kids - FOUR had been diagnosed. There are some interesting shorts on youtube.

The only murder I have come across was in America and strangely it was the mum who killed two of her sons. Her husband was a Vietnam Veteran who went down with the illness in the late seventies. Some years later (at least) two of their sons were diagnosed. When the symptoms had become very severe and they were in a nursing home their mum shot them - it was considered neither a murder of manslaughter, but I forget the sentence. One thing was that she had a life ban for caring for people. Soon after another son was diagnosed. The programme was 'Snapped - Women who kill' and I think her name was Carol Carr.

I dunno if it happens much these days but there were a lot of kids in the fifties 'adopted' - in inverted comms'a as it was all off the record. The problem is the genetic disorders these kids might have had.

Eve nin all

Just to update.

I ordered the file from National Archives a few months back and have since received 52 pages (e-mailed JPEG pictures). They include the Judge'sTrial Notes and several other interesting docs. Currently going through them all and actually typing up word doc versions of the text so as to get more familiar with what was written and the time-line of events. Also looking at press articles.

From what I have read so far, I am of the opinion HD was probably not a factor for either Harry or Hannah (although I could not rule it out). Seems more likely Harry may have lost it one evening. It was clearly a very unhappy and volatile marriage with both being at fault. Still more to look into though. Either way, I have been taken aback at the swift judgements in those days. Crime committed 8/9/1891; went to Assizes 24/11/1891; Jury took 12 minutes (yes twelve minutes) to find Harry Guilty - with a recommendation for Mercy; notes and papers back & forth between Judge/Police/Home Secretary along with a 500 signature petition for commutation which Home Sec rejected. Hung 15/12/1891. Sounds like he died instantly though bless him.

One of the more recent things that my quest for info has brought up is this...

Whilst searching on-line to try getting more info/clarity on some of the names in the story I came across a website talking about the closure of Shepton Mallet. Apologies if it is already flagged up on here but a few years back the Prison was sold to a private developer. They are still sorting out some 'viability issues' but as it stands they can start work with just 4 weeks' notice between now and 2020.

The aim is for a few luxury apartments and a little bit allocated to a Museum. Given that Harry has what I would call permanent tenancy I am currently working with a campaigner in Shepton to try getting a definitive answer of what exactly are the plans for Harry and his fellow mates? I understand when HMP Durham needed to consider those buried there during a modernisation exercise they cremated the bodies. Not sure if any family were traced or Home Office/Ministry of Justice even bothered to treat them with dignity or it was a mass cremation as such.

Last but not least, this Friday (4 May ) on Channel 5 Michael Portillo is covering Shepton in his Hidden History of Britain series. Should be a good one.

To be continued no doubt...